firstname.lastname@example.org (Madhudvisa dasa ) wrote: >Has anyone considered it might just be that women and men were designed to >perform different roles in society? It seems many of the women want to >become "men". Of course this may be allright... but do most men want to >marry these "man-like" women? >Actually we are not women or men, we are eternal spirit souls... I am in a >man's body now but my next body may be a women's... So we are all equal. >There is no difference in the quality of a man's soul and a women's >soul... But the bodies are different, they are designed to perform >different tasks... >Madhudvisa dasa > Check out the _NEW_ WWW pages at: > /sudarsana > ___________________________________________ >(email@example.com) | | > | S H E L T E R I N T E R N A T I O N A L | > |___________________________________________| > CHANT HARE KRISHNA AND BE HAPPY! > Dear Douglas, Thank you again for your comments. I have read your reply and appreciate your views. It is true that we are now in a completely different social situation than before and to spread Krishna consciousness some different attitudes may be required... But we can't "throw the baby out with the bath-water" so to speak.. The values you are supporting in your presentation are those of the current American society and are more or less mirrored everywhere now. America sets the lead and the world follows... So naturally most people will hold views similar to yours. It is the social norm. In fact to hold any other view would be socially very difficult. But whether the "social norm" is correct. That is another question. I have spent many years standing on the streets and talking to people about Krishna and selling them magazines and books and I have noticed very few people have individual opinions. It's amazing. People are very predictable. For example I knew more or less how you would reply to the article I sent to you. You haven't said anything I haven't heard many times before. It's the philosophy of the womans lib movement. They've got it down to a fine art. All the arguments are off pat. They can answer all the opposing questions... But so can every group who has developed a philosophy about something. Look at the atheists on the net. They attack the christians in a very predictable way.. The scientists have their philosophy they respond in a predictable way. It's not really communication. It's just about how well you can present the arguments. I'm not really interested in repeating the same arguments over and over again because I have also discovered that these people who have adopted their philosophy are not really interested in questioning it. They, for one reason or other, want to hold on to it even if you can prove they are wrong. We talk to the born again Christians... but they never really listen... You can understand it because we have our philosophy too and we don't really listen to them either... It's a funny world... So I was hoping to have a discussion on a higher level with you. Forget about the "womens lib" philosophy for a while and look at where society is heading. I think you are a responsible family man [I really don't know but it seems to me like that] and I suspect you value the ideas of family life and the idea of continuing it for the next generation. You said in one of your previous letters that you think many people are "naturally monogamous". So I suspect you see this as a good quality. But I don't think people are "naturally momogamous". I also meet a lot of young people, and at least here, in Australia, the tendancy for "fast sex" for pleasure is overpowering the monogamous family style relationships in many cases... Womans Liberation has freed the men from their traditional responsibilities. Many don't care any more. I have a sister who met her husband when she was young and they married. She was completely faithful to him and in all ways a very good wife. They have two daughters and Helen is pregnant with another child and Peter has just decided he's bored so he's got up and left her. So now there she is.. single mother, two children and another on the way... He broke her heart. She didn't have sex with anyone before him, she was in all ways a good wife.. But Peter was bored. And our Australian system encourages people to separate. Helen is working and gets a reasonable salary and Peter wanted to go to university to study (and party too I think). We have TEAS (Tertiary Education Assistance Scheme) here. The government pays you about $600 a month to go to Uni.. But it is means tested so he couldn't get it if he stayed with Helen... So he's just left his wife and children and gone off to conquer more women, get a better, education, get a better job... And that is OK by our society. He's not done anything wrong. But it has made Helen's life very difficult and has broken her heart... This wouldn't have happened before the woman's lib days.. I wonder if it is not really the men who have become liberated.. My point is whatever has happened, whatever direction society has headed, it is wrong.. Your idea that "most people are naturally monogamous" is sentimental. We are looking at a future society without family life. Your government is moving to institutionalize child-raising. We are seeing it already here. Now in so many families the mother and father are working and the kids are in child-care from 7 in the morning till 7 at night. The child-care centers are opening on the weekends here as well now so the parents can put their kids in over the weekend as well so their "lifestyle" won't be impacted too much. They can have their posh dinner parties and so on without having the kids under their feet... Now You may say that this is not general, but I am seeing it is a very popular trend... That is the way society is going. Is it good? I am interested in your thoughts because these are _VERY_ important issues.. As far as the Indian model, it is a very good time-proven one. You have quoted some ugly sides of Indian culture which certainly exist and are becoming more and more prominent. It is a great pity. They are also interested in following the "American" way. But the bad side you have quoted is not part of Vedic culture. I have lived in many Indian families houses and life is very good there for everyone, including the women. They have "extended families". Generally the father, the mother, the sons, their wives and children all live in one big house. It is very different from our western style. Generally each couple has their own bedroom but the rest of the house is the families. There is a "head man" and he looks after the finances and is the ultimate authority in the house and the women and the men have clearly defined separate roles. The first time I went to India it was on a student exchange program with Rotary and we were travelling from town to town and staying with the Rotary members there. At that stage I was like you. I was pushing the womens lib ideas... I was talking to the women about all these things but they were not interested, they were very happy. And they are much happier than our women... So it is a practical time- tested social system. But the women's lib system is not. Where it will lead us I don't know but the direction we are heading in now certainly does not seem to be a good one... Thank you. Hare Krishna! Madhudvisa dasa (firstname.lastname@example.org) /sudarsana All glories to His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada!