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tcpowe00@mik.uky.edu (Tahelia C Powe) wrote:
>In <3ps40e$o3a@dingo.cc.uq.oz.au> madhudvisa@krishna.org (Madhudvisa dasa ) writes:
>>>You think if I had been aborted before my birth I would care??????
>> You certainly would care! You are living within the womb before your
>> birth. That cannot be debated. At the time of conception the
>> spirit-soul (you) enter the womb. The material body gradually develops
> This can be debated, because it cannot be proven. Whether or not
>you would listen is another story.
If you can prove a body can develop and grow without life then go right
ahead and prove it. But growth and development are symptoms of life
surely?
If the soul didn't enter until birth and the child in the womb was a
tumor how can you explain eggs? If a bird lays an egg the baby bird
develops, completely independently of the mother, within the egg.
The soul, the living force, must be in a fertile egg when a chicken
lays it, otherwise how does it grow and change inside the egg? Clearly
it has no connection with the mother.. You could develop an artificial
incubator and put a fetus in there, it would still grow and develop
into a child if you could give it the right nutrients. The womb is just
like the nest for the baby birds...
>> The womb is NOT a comfortable place and the child within the womb is
>> fully conscious after seven months. He is aware of his surroundings, he
>> knows why he is there and, if he is a little pious, he prays to God,
>> "Please don't let me forget You when I take birth..." However birth is
>> a very traumatic experience for the child so he generally forgets
>> everything of his stay in the womb.
> I've heard very much to the contrary. The womb is warm, and the
>liquids in which the fetus floats protect it from a great deal of
>shock.
Except, of course when the mother eats something too hot, takes some
drugs, drinks alcohol... The effects are multiplied many times for the
child in the womb. Would you like to be in that position now? All
packed-up in such a small space with the mothers digestive fluids on
one side and all the obnoxious stool and urine on the other. There's
plenty of germs there and sometimes even worms...
>That's why many say birth is traumatic--the little one is
>leaving the warmth and protection of the womb for a cold, overly-
>bright (to un-prepared eyes) world.
Birth is _VERY_ traumatic for the child. So traumatic, in fact, that
the child forgets everything. Birth means forgetfulness.
>Also, the mother's heartbeat
>was (at least, at one time), conjectured to be a very comforting
>sound for infants, since that is a sound they can remember from
>the good ol' days in momma.
Obviously if he can remember his mothers heart-beat he was in his
mothers womb before birth! It's not a tumor there it's a child!
>> Outside the womb is relatively comfortable and he is convinced he is
>> the body, "I am an American man," "I am an Australian woman..." So he
>> dedicates his life to the pursuit of material pleasures....
>
> I have no memories of the womb, but most of my time in Kentucky is
>not very comfortable. It is RIDICULOUS to have to put up with 40-
>and 50-degree temperatures in May, for example, and I intensely
>dislike it when the temperature gets below the 40's and worse. Maybe
>outside the womb is comfortable to many others, however.
Anywhere you live in the material world has it's problems. We are not
meant to be here! We are meant to be in the kingdom of God, in the
spiritual world. If it was too comfortable here we might never want to
leave.. So this world is a frustrating place. It's designed to be like
that.
>> But if your mother kills your body in the womb you can't get into the
>> material world... You have to continue suffering in different mothers
>> wombs until finally you find one who doesn't kill your body!
> I just realized something...hmmm, your name, well...perhaps it
>explains your beliefs. However, not everyone agrees with whatever
>you use as an authority, which is evidently spiritual in nature.
>Your religious beliefs are yours, and I do not seek to tell you that
>they are wrong. However, they might be wrong for ME, and possibly
>for the person to whom you responded.
We accept the Vedas, the spiritual books from India. They contain
absolute knowledge and are right for everyone. What I have spoken of in
this post is common-sense anyhow, anyone can understand it.
>> It is a very dark and sinful age but I think you can understand what I
>> am saying here...
> No real arguments there. Personally, I'm not sure this is a world
>into which children ought to be brought. It reeks a bit of meanness.
It is mean because we are misers. All living for ourselves. All trying
to be God. No one can be happy this way. We can advance materially so
much. So many computers, so many color televisions, nice cars... But
these things will never make us happy or make the world a nice place.
We have to put God in the center and together we can use all of our
different skills and individuality to serve Him. That way we can live
in this world cooperatively and happy and after leaving this body we
can go back home, back to Godhead. We won't have to see the inside of
another mother's womb again!
Thank you. Hare Krishna.
Thank you. Hare Krishna!
Madhudvisa dasa
(madhudvisa@krishna.org) /sudarsana
All glories to His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada!
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